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	<title>Comments on: The Disingenuous Marketing Of P2P Lending Sites</title>
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	<link>http://marketingroi.wordpress.com/2008/02/05/the-disingenuous-marketing-of-p2p-lending-sites/</link>
	<description>Whim: Idea, passing thought, fool notion. What It Means.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 14:25:08 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=MU</generator>
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		<title>By: Luella</title>
		<link>http://marketingroi.wordpress.com/2008/02/05/the-disingenuous-marketing-of-p2p-lending-sites/#comment-24476</link>
		<dc:creator>Luella</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 08:19:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marketingroi.wordpress.com/?p=469#comment-24476</guid>
		<description>Hi,
P2P lending might be a good idea - but to claim it is “socially rewarding” is ridiculous to me. At lest it would mean I charge a lot lower interest than any professional lender would do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,<br />
P2P lending might be a good idea - but to claim it is “socially rewarding” is ridiculous to me. At lest it would mean I charge a lot lower interest than any professional lender would do.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Novo</title>
		<link>http://marketingroi.wordpress.com/2008/02/05/the-disingenuous-marketing-of-p2p-lending-sites/#comment-19124</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Novo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 13:51:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marketingroi.wordpress.com/?p=469#comment-19124</guid>
		<description>Philanthropic contributions in the United States were about $300 billion in 2006.  Boomers are are a lot more cranky than stingy, methinks...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Philanthropic contributions in the United States were about $300 billion in 2006.  Boomers are are a lot more cranky than stingy, methinks&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: rshevlin</title>
		<link>http://marketingroi.wordpress.com/2008/02/05/the-disingenuous-marketing-of-p2p-lending-sites/#comment-19122</link>
		<dc:creator>rshevlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 13:20:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marketingroi.wordpress.com/?p=469#comment-19122</guid>
		<description>Thanks for commenting, all. Certainly, different sites have different messages, with varying degrees of effort regarding the socially rewarding message. Perhaps I hit the "disingenuous" angle too hard. 

Nevertheless, I stand my belief regarding the marketing approach the sites should be taking -- that is, helping investors understand how and why to incorporate P2P loans into their portfolio and overall investing approach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for commenting, all. Certainly, different sites have different messages, with varying degrees of effort regarding the socially rewarding message. Perhaps I hit the &#8220;disingenuous&#8221; angle too hard. </p>
<p>Nevertheless, I stand my belief regarding the marketing approach the sites should be taking &#8212; that is, helping investors understand how and why to incorporate P2P loans into their portfolio and overall investing approach.</p>
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		<title>By: Rock and Roll, Baby! &#171; EverythingCU.com World 2.0 Adventure</title>
		<link>http://marketingroi.wordpress.com/2008/02/05/the-disingenuous-marketing-of-p2p-lending-sites/#comment-19081</link>
		<dc:creator>Rock and Roll, Baby! &#171; EverythingCU.com World 2.0 Adventure</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 14:17:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marketingroi.wordpress.com/?p=469#comment-19081</guid>
		<description>[...] and Roll,&#160;Baby!  Ron Shevlin and Tim McAlpine are writing about P2P lending. For those new to the P2P lending concept, know that [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and Roll,&nbsp;Baby!  Ron Shevlin and Tim McAlpine are writing about P2P lending. For those new to the P2P lending concept, know that [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Wiseclerk</title>
		<link>http://marketingroi.wordpress.com/2008/02/05/the-disingenuous-marketing-of-p2p-lending-sites/#comment-19078</link>
		<dc:creator>Wiseclerk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 12:39:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marketingroi.wordpress.com/?p=469#comment-19078</guid>
		<description>Hi Ron,

there are many different p2p lending sites with different marketing messages and aims. 
Regarding "socially rewarding": In my opinion this is not the main message, but there may be a few exceptions, e.g. Kiva and MyC4.

Fees are rising (e.g. Prosper, Boober) and most platforms are still far away from a loan volume that makes them profitable. For Prosper numbers quoted for break even were about 300 mio. US$ loan volume (that was before the latest fee raise).

When fees were (or still are, e.g. Smava with 1% origination fee, no servicing fee) low, the p2p lending site could rightfully use slogans like "cut out the middleman". At some height in fees that argument will no longer make sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ron,</p>
<p>there are many different p2p lending sites with different marketing messages and aims.<br />
Regarding &#8220;socially rewarding&#8221;: In my opinion this is not the main message, but there may be a few exceptions, e.g. Kiva and MyC4.</p>
<p>Fees are rising (e.g. Prosper, Boober) and most platforms are still far away from a loan volume that makes them profitable. For Prosper numbers quoted for break even were about 300 mio. US$ loan volume (that was before the latest fee raise).</p>
<p>When fees were (or still are, e.g. Smava with 1% origination fee, no servicing fee) low, the p2p lending site could rightfully use slogans like &#8220;cut out the middleman&#8221;. At some height in fees that argument will no longer make sense.</p>
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		<title>By: Colin</title>
		<link>http://marketingroi.wordpress.com/2008/02/05/the-disingenuous-marketing-of-p2p-lending-sites/#comment-19066</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 06:35:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marketingroi.wordpress.com/?p=469#comment-19066</guid>
		<description>I think a little context is needed here.  Prosper's site leads with: 

"Prosper is an online community for lending and borrowing money.   Bidding on borrowers' loans, lenders get great returns by offering great rates."

And the quote used, also mentions financially rewarding.  

Clearly this is an investment.

As to socially rewarding, that is in the eyes of the beholder.  While a Mr Cranky may not sense that others might.  

If we look in context of Big, Imperious Banks that make borrowing/ investing/ saving/ a one sided transaction, with few options, then its hard to argue that knowing where your money is going, that it helps people, and that at the same time provides you an economic incentive, is offerring something that Banks cannot.  Whether thats rewarding or not is up to the investor.  

Having said all of that, thanks to you for keeping the industry honest.  This is a conversation that needs to be encouraged.  P2P lending is not charity, nor is it altruistic.  It is an investment.  

Hopefully there is an honest blend of economic and social characteristics that people will see, whether to varying degrees, and that it offers a genuine financial, believable alternative.

[PS ... see I can be nice ... :-)  ]
[Disclosure:  I am involved with a P2P lending company]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think a little context is needed here.  Prosper&#8217;s site leads with: </p>
<p>&#8220;Prosper is an online community for lending and borrowing money.   Bidding on borrowers&#8217; loans, lenders get great returns by offering great rates.&#8221;</p>
<p>And the quote used, also mentions financially rewarding.  </p>
<p>Clearly this is an investment.</p>
<p>As to socially rewarding, that is in the eyes of the beholder.  While a Mr Cranky may not sense that others might.  </p>
<p>If we look in context of Big, Imperious Banks that make borrowing/ investing/ saving/ a one sided transaction, with few options, then its hard to argue that knowing where your money is going, that it helps people, and that at the same time provides you an economic incentive, is offerring something that Banks cannot.  Whether thats rewarding or not is up to the investor.  </p>
<p>Having said all of that, thanks to you for keeping the industry honest.  This is a conversation that needs to be encouraged.  P2P lending is not charity, nor is it altruistic.  It is an investment.  </p>
<p>Hopefully there is an honest blend of economic and social characteristics that people will see, whether to varying degrees, and that it offers a genuine financial, believable alternative.</p>
<p>[PS ... see I can be nice ... <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  ]<br />
[Disclosure:  I am involved with a P2P lending company]</p>
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		<title>By: Gene Blishen</title>
		<link>http://marketingroi.wordpress.com/2008/02/05/the-disingenuous-marketing-of-p2p-lending-sites/#comment-19048</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene Blishen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 21:59:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marketingroi.wordpress.com/?p=469#comment-19048</guid>
		<description>Excellent points. Given the size of the lending and the potential numbers of lenders/borrowers one may lay claim to some extent the social aspect. Taking 100 to 300 basis points as a finder and admin fee is not a social aspect. Lending always takes a different view when the loan goes sideways. I wonder if the holder in due course will consider the bad debt as part of a social program. Another point , how can the use of money be considered so altruistic if it is to pay off credit card debt?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent points. Given the size of the lending and the potential numbers of lenders/borrowers one may lay claim to some extent the social aspect. Taking 100 to 300 basis points as a finder and admin fee is not a social aspect. Lending always takes a different view when the loan goes sideways. I wonder if the holder in due course will consider the bad debt as part of a social program. Another point , how can the use of money be considered so altruistic if it is to pay off credit card debt?</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Bruene</title>
		<link>http://marketingroi.wordpress.com/2008/02/05/the-disingenuous-marketing-of-p2p-lending-sites/#comment-19046</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Bruene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 20:42:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marketingroi.wordpress.com/?p=469#comment-19046</guid>
		<description>I'd say lending and investing are the same thing in this context. Investments, at least those in corporations (not including gold bullion, Monet's and Bob Dylan memorabilia) means you are lending them capital either for dividend/growth or a coupon rate of return. 

I agree that most P2P lending is/will be for raw return on investment, and that's what ultimately what will fuel growth. But there are at least some lenders/investors that consider the "social good" of the loan into their decision process. 

And if the exchanges can figure out ways to "certify" the real needs of the end-users (like Kiva.org), I think there will be even more of it. The tens of millions that have gone out through Kiva prove there is a least some "social capital" at play.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d say lending and investing are the same thing in this context. Investments, at least those in corporations (not including gold bullion, Monet&#8217;s and Bob Dylan memorabilia) means you are lending them capital either for dividend/growth or a coupon rate of return. </p>
<p>I agree that most P2P lending is/will be for raw return on investment, and that&#8217;s what ultimately what will fuel growth. But there are at least some lenders/investors that consider the &#8220;social good&#8221; of the loan into their decision process. </p>
<p>And if the exchanges can figure out ways to &#8220;certify&#8221; the real needs of the end-users (like Kiva.org), I think there will be even more of it. The tens of millions that have gone out through Kiva prove there is a least some &#8220;social capital&#8221; at play.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://marketingroi.wordpress.com/2008/02/05/the-disingenuous-marketing-of-p2p-lending-sites/#comment-19041</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 18:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marketingroi.wordpress.com/?p=469#comment-19041</guid>
		<description>Fynanz seems a bit more unfounded in their claim. Just because you are lending to somebody doesn't exactly mean you are doing a "social good". The quote about Prosper however seems a bit more strait forward. 

Lending directly to somebody with a face and a name is, to me, a lot more "socially rewarding" than investing at a faceless bank. Its all semantics, but the way they state their intentions makes all the difference to me.

Also, I guess the difference between lending and investing is what is the money being used for? If I'm supporting somebody looking to pay off a credit card debt, I'm lending to them. If I'm lending to somebody who is starting a business, I'm investing because I'm counting on the success of that business. These P2P lenders are blurring that line for a lot of people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fynanz seems a bit more unfounded in their claim. Just because you are lending to somebody doesn&#8217;t exactly mean you are doing a &#8220;social good&#8221;. The quote about Prosper however seems a bit more strait forward. </p>
<p>Lending directly to somebody with a face and a name is, to me, a lot more &#8220;socially rewarding&#8221; than investing at a faceless bank. Its all semantics, but the way they state their intentions makes all the difference to me.</p>
<p>Also, I guess the difference between lending and investing is what is the money being used for? If I&#8217;m supporting somebody looking to pay off a credit card debt, I&#8217;m lending to them. If I&#8217;m lending to somebody who is starting a business, I&#8217;m investing because I&#8217;m counting on the success of that business. These P2P lenders are blurring that line for a lot of people.</p>
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		<title>By: Robbie Wright</title>
		<link>http://marketingroi.wordpress.com/2008/02/05/the-disingenuous-marketing-of-p2p-lending-sites/#comment-19040</link>
		<dc:creator>Robbie Wright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 18:03:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marketingroi.wordpress.com/?p=469#comment-19040</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I'm with you.  It's kinda iffy if it is really socially beneficial to lend money to an AA credit-rated person at 7.95%.  As far as saving/investing/lending goes, savings means put money into an FI and receiving interest and or dividends for your money.  Investing is you providing capital to a business to operate and in turn receiving a portion of their profits, either in capital appreciation or dividends.  Lending, I think, is just a channel of investment, definitely not savings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I&#8217;m with you.  It&#8217;s kinda iffy if it is really socially beneficial to lend money to an AA credit-rated person at 7.95%.  As far as saving/investing/lending goes, savings means put money into an FI and receiving interest and or dividends for your money.  Investing is you providing capital to a business to operate and in turn receiving a portion of their profits, either in capital appreciation or dividends.  Lending, I think, is just a channel of investment, definitely not savings.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Geiger</title>
		<link>http://marketingroi.wordpress.com/2008/02/05/the-disingenuous-marketing-of-p2p-lending-sites/#comment-19039</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Geiger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 17:59:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marketingroi.wordpress.com/?p=469#comment-19039</guid>
		<description>Ron,

Methinks that the P2P emperor may be clothesless. Or if not nude, at least scantily dressed.

Thanks again for being willing to snoop around in the less-explored corners, and for reporting out on what you find there.

Good stuff. We need more folks who are skeptical of conventional wisdom.

Bruce</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron,</p>
<p>Methinks that the P2P emperor may be clothesless. Or if not nude, at least scantily dressed.</p>
<p>Thanks again for being willing to snoop around in the less-explored corners, and for reporting out on what you find there.</p>
<p>Good stuff. We need more folks who are skeptical of conventional wisdom.</p>
<p>Bruce</p>
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